Spoon2Di Volume 67: Interview with Daiki Tomiyasu and Hiroyuki Kato


This interview features comments from Pokemon Journeys Executive Director, Daiki Tomiyasu and the production head of OLM's Team Kato, regarding the first year of Pocket Monsters 2019.


General Director Tomiyasu Daiki x Animation Producer Katou Hiroyuki Interview

Chief director Tomiyasu Daiki, who is responsible for the overall package, while at the same time feeding back his feelings as a fan of "Pocket Monsters" to the production, and animation producer Katou Hiroyuki, who supports the production scene to create a new era of "Pocket Monsters" with an emphasis on both tradition and innovation. The two of them, who have worked together to create ambitious works in the "Pocket Monsters" series up to now, look back on the first year of the production of "Pocket Monsters" and talk about the "Sword & Shield" arc, which is currently in the midst of its broadcast, as well as their outlook for the second year!

Tomiyasu Daiki Animation director. Belongs to OLM. He has been involved in the "Pocket Monsters" series since "Pocket Monsters XY." He directed "Pocket Monsters THE ORIGIN," "Pocket Monsters XY&Z," and "Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon," and has taken over as chief director for this series, leading the production.

Katou Hiroyuki Animation producer. Belongs to OLM. He has been in charge of production as TEAM KATO since "Pocket Monsters Diamond Pearl." Since then, he has worked on numerous "Pocket Monsters" series, supporting the production of the creators including the chief director.

―The TV anime "Pocket Monsters" that started in 2019 will finally enter its second year. What are your thoughts and feelings about the production of this series so far?

Katou: "We have started making this series as an 'animation based on all the games' challenge, and with the addition of the new main character, Gou, alongside Satoshi, I think that even the people at the scene are beginning to grasp the fun of the buddy story between the two. The addition of Gou, a charming character, to the 'who is Satoshi' that we have always described up until now, has changed the scenario and the artwork-making process quite a bit. The same can be said for the actors, and I think they are all getting into the swing of things now. From your point of view, Tomiyasu, what do you think of the enthusiasm and atmosphere at the recording studio?"

Tomiyasu: "Indeed, I think the fact that the double hero aspect has taken root is due in part to time. A one-year broadcast is quite a long time for a normal TV animation series, and the 'Pocket Monsters' production scene is so unique that there is a sense of disorientation. To finally get used to it after a year's work, from a certain point of view, makes it a pretty slow starter (laughs). In that situation, as Katou mentioned, I feel that Gou has a great deal of power. Matsumoto Rica, who plays Satoshi, is like the backbone of 'Pocket Monsters,' and I am very grateful that she has remained the same throughout the years, but there are differences in how the characters, actors, and staff match up to each series. Gou plays a central role in this series, so the power of Yamashita Daiki, who plays him, is very important. Moreover, I feel that 'Pocket Monsters' is unique in that Yamashita's performance provides feedback to the animation. If it were a one-cour production, it would be too late to reflect his acting in the scripts and the art, but with 'Pokemon,' it's possible. That is why I feel that Yamashita's unique style is being fed back to us more and more."

Katou: "I don't think there is any other long-term series in which the characters keep changing, except for 'Pocket Monsters.' Of course, there are some things that remain the same, such as Satoshi and the Rocket Gang, but I think this is the only work where new characters are introduced and the vertical axis is further advanced. So, after a year of the series, I feel that we are getting a great response from the production site in terms of the 'live feeling that the work is constantly changing.' After all, when you watch the finished product, you can see how the structure will change in the future.

Tomiyasu: "That is certainly true. We would say things like, 'That story was so good, we want to continue it,' or 'That Pokémon was so cute when it moved, we want to bring it back.'"

―I understand. Speaking of Gou, episode 32, "Celebi: A Timeless Promise," was the first episode in which Satoshi did not appear in the entire story, but it was a wonderful story, filled with things that could only be depicted because Gou was alone.

Tomiyasu: "Gou alone was fresh and very interesting."

Katou: "It was a challenge for us 'not to show Satoshi.' In fact, at the beginning, we weren't sure if we wanted to have Satoshi appear, even if it was just for a single shot at the beginning. In the past series, for example, there were episodes in which Satoshi did not appear, such as in the special episodes that were broadcast between 'Pocket Monsters Best Wishes' and 'Pocket Monsters XY,' 'Dent and Takeshi! Gyarados's Imperial Rage!!' and 'Iris VS Ibuki! The Road to Become a Dragon Master!!' but there were no episodes in which he did not appear in the main series. I was a bit surprised to see some viewers counting the number of Satoshi's appearances (laughs)."

Tomiyasu: "I felt afterwards that we had done something unspeakable (laughs)."

Katou: "But you felt that you had 'accumulated enough episodes to make it work even with only Gou,' didn't you?"

Tomiyasu: "Yes, I did. I think that Gou's hazy past was relatively cleared up here, and while this was a turning point for Gou, I feel that the hook of 'Satoshi not appearing' was a good match for the overall story structure."

―Looking back on the story so far, can you tell us about any other episodes that you liked, scenes that touched you, directional choices that you were particular about, or behind-the-scenes stories from the production?

Katou: "For me, it was episode 41, 'The Great Pikachu Dubbing Operation! / Half a Numacraw.' It was the first time since episode 26, 'Jump, Koiking! / Put it On, Yadoking!' that we did a two-segment episode, and I think it was an interesting episode in terms of format as a 'gimmick,' and I believe the production team's pranks worked in a good way (laughs). As was the case with the previous two-segment, we were playing around with the cold open that plays before the opening, somehow misleading the viewers. I am sure the viewers may say, 'What's going on with the staff?!" (laughs)."

Tomiyasu: "It was made in such a way that those who were planning to take a break and go to the restroom after the cold open are no longer in a position to do so (laughs), so in that sense, I think it's fun for the creators to play with the format."

―As was the case with the previous two-segment, it is also important to note that Creative Supervisor Yuyama Kunihiko participated in the storyboarding of the 41st episode as well.

Tomiyasu: "That's the skill of Producer Katou! He shoved in Yuyama willy-nilly. Yuyama said no, but for some reason he had to do it (laughs)."

Katou: "Yes, that's right... I thought that we, the younger generation, needed to see him personally going out on a mission (laughs)."

Tomiyasu: "The 'Half a Numacraw' half of episode 41 was storyboarded by Yuyama, and it was the best. Yuyama had worked on many epic episodes, such as the 'Pocket Monsters' movies, and I felt that he must have wanted to do a lot of gags as well (laughs). Yuyama himself is actually a very funny and aloof person. The public image of Yuyama may be that he is a rather tough-looking maestro, but he can crack a joke with a straight face, and the episode is full of that kind of personality."

―I would love for you to look back on it again, along with episode 26 (laughs). Are there any other episodes that you found moving?

Tomiyasu: "If episode 32 is a story about Gou, I have a deep attachment to Episode 30, 'The Reluctant Pikachu and the Exasperated Barrierd,' which was able to portray Satoshi and Pikachu's origin story well. It was a story about Satoshi and Pikachu reaffirming their feelings for each other, triggered by Pikachu's running away from home. In terms of the drama, this is the occasion when Pikachu called Satoshi 'Pikapi,' which he had not called him for the past few years, but this was not actually established from the scenario stage. The story was created to remind us of the time when they first met, and it was a chance for us to let him call Satoshi that way again, and Ootani Ikue, who plays Pikachu, suggested that we use 'Pikapi.' Mima, the sound director, and I unanimously agreed that it would be a good idea, and that's how we ended up using 'Pikapi' this time. I am glad that it gave us a chance to look at Satoshi and Pikachu in a new light."

―The scene where Pikachu remembers that Satoshi once protected him in the same way when Barrierd defended Pikachu was a really poignant scene for fans who have been watching the anime for a long time.

Tomiyasu: "I think the scene where Pikachu evolved from Pichu to Pikachu in the first episode 'Pikachu is Born!' was the same deal, but I had to be very careful about how I could convince people who have loved Satoshi and Pikachu for a long time to watch it, even though it was a retcon. This series in particular looks back on the past series often, so while paying attention to these points, I hope that we can create something new, like a piece that fills in a gap that has not been filled in the past, or a new perspective that says, 'Oh, come to think of it, we never had this kind of viewpoint before.'"

―Also, you storyboarded episode 37, "I'm Back, Nice to Meet You, Alola!" directly, didn't you?

Tomiyasu: "Yes, that's right. Actually, if I start talking about episode 37, I might run out of time... (laughs). As for the content, the starting point was Satoshi visiting the Alola region for the first time in a long time and saying 'I'm back' to his friends. In this series, Satoshi and Gou visit all the regions that have appeared in the previous series, and of course I thought they would go to the Alola region as well, but the people Satoshi has met in regions other than Alola have appeared as 'traveling companions,' so it would be difficult for him to meet them by chance without an arrangement, and all the people who appeared in Alola had a permanent residency and Satoshi had a home to go back to, so it would be impossible for him to avoid them. So, first of all, I gave a lot of thought to how Satoshi would first visit the Alola region, and I wanted to make sure I portrayed that properly. On the other hand, I didn't want to make it a 'story only for those in the know' that would be difficult for new viewers to understand, and I felt that Gou was in the same position as those viewers. So, I decided to focus on how to depict the Alola region where Satoshi spent his time from the perspective of Gou, and I worked on the story while consulting with Matsui Aya, who worked on the series construction for 'Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon' and also wrote the script for this episode. It worked out very well, and while it is an 'I'm back!' episode for Satoshi, I think it is an encounter for Gou, in other words, a 'nice to meet you' episode. I feel that most of the relationships in the real world are also about entering into a relationship that has already been established. I think everyone has experienced that feeling Gou had of being a little nervous about joining Satoshi's circle of acquaintances, especially in the small island nation of Alola, with its close communication and sense of distance, and I think we were able to capture his reluctance to enter. Also, when Kaki, a hot-blooded and straight-forward island boy, comes to pressure Gou, an urbanite, how Gou communicates with him was ultimately an opportunity to delve deeper into Gou, and I think this was an important story for him."

Katou: "To give you a behind-the-scenes production story, Tomiyasu's checking of the drawings was about three times more strict than usual! I honestly thought he put too much thought into it (laughs)."

Tomiyasu: "I checked every detail of the drawings (laughs)."

Katou: "It was to the point that I wondered if this was the last episode of 'Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon' or something! Then again, this is the first time I'm saying this to you (laughs). But I guess there are such aspects that suddenly flip the switch inside you."

Tomiyasu: "Yes, that's right. I also don't intend to wither out as a director (laughs), so sometimes I feel like I want to direct every detail. If someone else is drawing the storyboards for me, I can say, 'That's one interpretation,' but if I'm drawing the storyboards myself, I have those images in my head. If I change them, my ego pops up and says, 'I want to make it the way I envisioned it.' So I guess... I kind of think it would be detrimental to the production if I draw storyboards myself (laughs)."

Katou: "(laughs). Also, you say you want to depict what happens to Lilie and Gladion and company down the road. That means that you want to settle the search for their father. We have already discussed this with Matsui (laughs), the scriptwriter mentioned earlier, so I don't know when it will happen, but I am looking forward to seeing if I can make the chief director's dream come true!"

Tomiyasu: "I don't mean to misappropriate the work, but that's where I completely left it undone. Even in episode 37, it is clearly stated that 'Lilie is on a journey to find her father.'"

Katou: "You said that 'the gloomy feeling has rekindled.' You should have brought it to a close... (laughs)"

Tomiyasu: "I hope we can depict it somewhere, because it has given viewers from this series some gloomy feelings as well!"

―I would love to see it somewhere! Previously, Katou told us that you "intentionally create episodes with all new staff members, while maintaining a balance in the staffing to respect both the traditional and the new." Are there any particular episodes in the ones we got so far that you feel show the knack of the staffing?

Katou: "In terms of the number of episodes that I thought about in terms of the balance between veteran staff and new staff, the first episode where Yoshida Reiko joined us for the first time is very impressive. I asked Asada Yuuji, who has been involved with 'Pocket Monsters' from the beginning, to join for the storyboarding of this episode, but in the area of art creation. We intentionally organized it so as not to miss the point of what Pokémon is all about. Also, Ichiishi Sayuri, who has worked on character design for 'Pocket Monsters,' joined us as an animation director. The first episode was very bulky, so we had several other people working as animation directors to support us, but thanks to Ichiishi's help, we were able to draw a cute Pichu and Pikachu from all angles. Asada is primarily a storyboard artist and episode director, but we intentionally had him work only on storyboarding for this episode, and then storyboarding and directing for the sixth episode, 'Catch a Lot of Pokémon! The Path to Mew!!'. The scriptwriters who have participated in this series include Akao Deko and Tsuchiya Michihiro, but we also have 'Pokemon' veterans working on storyboarding, directing, and animation. That said, in the second year, I feel that everyone is getting used to it. Among them, Tomiyasu is the most knowledgeable about Pokemon, which I think is very impressive (laughs)."

Tomiyasu: "No, no, I'm still not very familiar with it, so I'm working on it while learning every day. The staff members who were young and hot at the time of 'Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon,' including Yasuda Shuuhei, who is the character designer and chief animation director for this series, are now in senior positions, and they are helping to nurture the younger generation. And those young people are getting better and better at what they do, so that kind of on-the-job coming-of-age tale is an interesting part of 'Pocket Monsters.'"

―The "Sword & Shield" arc that is currently being aired, starting with episode 42 "Sword & Shield I - "Slumbering Forest"" and continuing for four episodes, is a much-anticipated episode for viewers who have played the game. Could you tell us what was important and what you focused on when you made the anime version of this important story from the original game "Pocket Monsters: Sword & Shield"?

Tomiyasu: "When the new 'Pocket Monsters' series started, it was broadcast on Sunday evenings at 6:00 p.m., so we started with the idea of basically telling stories in self-contained episodes, but even in such a situation, there is more to be depicted if the story has depth and is spread out over several episodes. As part of that challenge, and as the culmination of the first year, we made the 'Sword & Shield' arc. If I had tried to, I could have continued to work on the 'Sword & Shield' arc for the entire one-cour period, but we agreed that not everyone would be able to continue to watch it consistently, so we decided to keep the story somewhat compact. If I were to describe the entire story of the game, I would not have enough time to fit it all in, and I wondered what parts of the story I could summarize to depict the legend of the Galar region, and how the story would differ from the game when Satoshi and Gou, who are not in the game, enter that world. I wanted to depict these points with importance. When we were discussing the scenario, my biggest concern at the time was that if Satoshi and Gou traveled through the story together, it would be the same as the route taken by the player to move the main character in the game. I thought that would not be very interesting for the people who play the game. I believe that what Satoshi is good at and what Gou is good at are different from each other, so I thought it would be good if I could craft a story where the two could pursue their own individuality by taking different paths and then reconnect with each other at the end. So, it was difficult to find the right amount of each of them in the script, but when I finished, I felt that I was able to incorporate my feelings into it, and I think that it reflects the parts that I fussed over."

Katou: "For example, if this were a movie, the scenario would be written by one person, but with a normal schedule for the TV anime, the 'Sword & Shield' arc would have to be written by four scriptwriters because we have to air one episode each week. While assuming this, we had Yonemura and Tsuchiya, a combination of old and new writers for 'Pocket Monsters,' balance out the work. As Tomiyasu said, I think they have done a very good job, and although it is a work in progress at the time of this interview, I feel that we have been able to create pictures that gradually build up to the climax."

―By the way, in this series, we see Satoshi's partner Pikachu as well as Riolu, and Gou's partner Rabbifoot as well as Messon. What are the reasons why Riolu and Messon were chosen?

Tomiyasu: "The Pokémon on hand were eventually decided based on various requests from the producers. In the past series, I had the impression that Satoshi's Pokémon were somewhat peculiar, and surprisingly, he didn't get tried-and-true Pokemon. This was especially true in the early years of the series, and this is the first time he has acquired Pokémon that have appeared since 'Pocket Monsters Red and Green,' such as Kairyuu and Gengar. Riolu and its evolved form, Lucario, have also been popular Pokémon from 'Pocket Monsters Diamond and Pearl' to the present, but there may have been a feeling among the staff that, 'It's about time we did something straight up.' When Lucario first appeared in 'Pokémon Advanced Generation The Movie: Mew and the Wave Hero, Lucario,' the Riolu era was not depicted, and I thought that if Satoshi was going to raise it from the beginning, it would be Riolu. So I made him his other partner."

Katou: "I thought that Riolu and Lucario were strongly associated with the impression of Pokémon that Satoshi's rivals have. But I felt that Riolu and Lucario would be very picturesque Pokémon when held by the main character. I also thought that Hibanny would look really cool when it evolves into Rabbifoot and Aceburn. Also, regarding Messon, we had the idea of assigning the first three Pokémon of the Galar region to each of the three characters."

Tomiyasu: "Yes, that's right. When we first chose Hibanny as Gou's on-hand Pokémon, there was a disparity with 'first three Pokémon of the Galar region,' but I always thought, 'Eventually, I'd like to give him both Messon and Sarunori.' In the midst of all this, Hibaney evolved into Rabbifoot, and I have the impression that it was moved up a level, so I thought it would be a good idea to depict a still immature Pokémon in a position familiar to Gou now that that spot was open, and to depict Messon's still whiny, still-growing feeling from the starting point, and I decided to introduce Messon first, rather than Sarunori. So I think you can look forward to Sarunori's appearance as well."

―I am looking forward to it! Now, please tell us about the highlights of episode 43, "Sword & Shield II - "Black Night.""

Katou: "When it comes to the highlight of episode 43, I think the scene of Dande and Sonia's past is the part that makes me feel somewhat touched. It's just a small scene, but I want people to pay attention to it because it's 'distinctive of the anime.' I think episode 43 falls in the 'development' part of the quadripartite story structure (introduction, development, turn and conclusion), and in that sense, it is an important episode for the characters, such as the part about Rose. The second episode of a four-episode series may be the part where it is easy to relax one's attention, but I hope that the key characters will be in it, and I want to tell the children watching the show that it is very important not to miss it because it is the 'development' part (laughs)."

Tomiyasu: "Since Katou has already mentioned the highlights of the episode (laughs), I'd like to talk about the micro aspects... Drapult appears among Dande's Pokémon, and uses a move called 'Dragon Arrow,' in which Drameshiya pop out from inside the hollow horns. Drameshiya make a cute cry when that happens (laughs). Also, this may have been a challenge for Katou, but we did our best to design Sonia's car, which does not appear in the game, so please pay attention to the scenes where the car appears. In the 'Sword & Shield' arc, there are several scenes where Sonia and Gou are riding in this shabby car together, and where you can see that Sonia is actually a bit of a bad driver, and I thought the interaction between the two of them in these scenes was fresh and fun."

―Yonemura Shouji, the series constructor, also said, "Gou's boyishness looks very charming when he works with an older woman like Sonia, and Gou is able to cover for Sonia's slightly careless side."

Katou: "The scene where Sonia and Gou get into the car was definitely instructed by Tomiyasu, wasn't it?!"

Tomiyasu: "Yes. I think it is exactly the scene that Yonemura was talking about, 'Gou's boyishness looks very attractive when he is with an older woman'... I myself wanted to go back to being 10 years old (laughs)."

Katou: "(laughs). The conversation at that point just about goes over Dande and Sonia's past, so I hope you enjoy it."

―Thank you very much! Lastly, please give a message to the readers who support the "Pocket Monsters" TV anime, including the highlights after the "Sword & Shield" arc!

Tomiyasu: "There is an episode coming up in which Mewtwo makes an appearance, as you can see in the trailer that has been released, and I actually storyboarded that episode myself. So... I think Katou is regretting it right now because there were so many retakes (laughs). However, that is how much effort I put into the finished product, so I hope you are looking forward to it. We are also preparing various major episodes for the second year, including the episode about Koharu and Eevee, that was featured in the new key visual, so I hope you will enjoy it, including the new gimmicks!"

Katou: "As Tomiyasu said, we would like you to pay attention to Koharu in the second year. Because while Satoshi's battles in the 'Pokémon World Championships,' which he is currently challenging, will become more and more exciting, Gou's vertical storyline and Koharu's vertical storyline will start anew. The stories of Satoshi, Gou, and Koharu each have enough drama to last for years, and there are more and more highlights, so I feel that there are not enough episodes to go around. It is very difficult for Tomiyasu and the other staff members on site to make the animation while making choices and adding something on top, but I think it is an interesting part of the project."

Tomiyasu: "It's really a struggle every time, 'I want to show more of that story, but I also want to do this story.' Koharu has been in so few episodes that Hanazawa Kana, who plays her, asked me directly for more (laughs), but I believe that with a long-term series, we should always keep looking forward, putting such reflections to good use in the next phase, so I would like to make the most of them in the future!"

[Back to Translations]